Interview

Viet Nam can become a showcase for social justice

Ms Tomoko Nishimoto, ILO Assistant Director-General and Regional Director for Asia and the Pacific, shared some thoughts about her visit to Viet Nam on 20-24 April.

News | 09 May 2016
Ms Tomoko Nishimoto,
ILO Assistant Director-General and Regional Director, addresses a TV interview. © ILO/Duc

This was your first visit to Viet Nam. What was your impression about the country and Hanoi?

I had already heard a lot about Viet Nam and Hanoi. Perhaps the best words to describe my impressions are “vibrant” and “hopeful for a better future”. You can see the people are very much looking forward to the next stage of the country’s development. It was a clear message from all those I met.

During your visit you met a variety of people, including leaders of the tripartite partners (the Government, trade unions and employers’ organizations), donors and the UN community. What insights did you gain from your interactions with them?

Firstly, I was impressed by the commitment and seriousness of the partners, including not only the Vietnamese – the Government, the workers as well as employers – but also the development partners – the UN and donors. They were all sincere in wishing Viet Nam the best for the next stage of development and were thinking seriously about the crossroads that the Viet Nam is at.

Secondly, that seriousness and commitment was also accompanied by good analysis and an understanding of the reasons why Viet Nam is at this stage of development and what will be the challenges and opportunities ahead for the country.

I was surprised at the depth of the conversations I had with tripartite partners, donors and UN agencies during my first time in the country. Normally first encounters and courtesy meetings would be just an exchange of nice words and “thank you” and might not go into the next level of discussion about what is actually needed. However, despite the fact that some of the discussions were only 30 minutes long, I think they went to that level of depth. And it was our partners who led to the next level of conversation, in which they demonstrated their understanding and strong commitment. It was very impressive.

Thirdly, all the conversations were very nice and warm, and showed a soft way of approaching the issues.

The combination of those three elements in our brief conversations gave me great hope that this country will succeed, whatever challenges it may face.

Which interactions impressed you the most?

All were very impressive in different ways. All three elements were common to all of them, including even the leaders of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, who went way beyond the usual diplomatic niceties.

However, the distinctive meeting was the one with the Ministry of Labour, Invalids and Social Affairs (MoLISA) because they are our key partner. Despite the fact that the Minister, Dao Ngoc Dung was appointed only a week ago, he made himself available, displayed his grasp of the policy issues that are part of his responsibilities, and led the discussion, again with the very typical three elements – seriousness, good analysis and being very nice. He is a very impressive leader, who will lead MoLISA into the future.

Another one was with the journalists attending the 3rd Media Award on Labour and Employment. I didn't have much time to interact with them but the way the young journalists deal with issues in the world of work, enjoy freedom of expression and express their views on very tough labour cases is something to celebrate. I think our presence and the Ambassadors’ presence helped them understand that their journalistic work will get international attention as Viet Nam goes for deeper global integration, and the importance of their work in contributing to the people’s rights, social justice, and truly people-based development.

When I come back to Viet Nam next time, I would be happy to interact more with young people. In my previous work for UNICEF and the UN Environment Programme, I found out that the most enjoyable factor when interacting with children and youth is their straightforwardness and forward-looking thinking. You can see this, for example, in the climate change discussions. They talk about climate change over 50 years or 100 years. Young people tell me: ‘You will not be here in 50 years. It is our future we are talking about. That’s why we should take the lead.’ I think it is very important to engage the young generation in our work on labour and employment issues.

As the Regional Director, you oversee the ILO’s operations in 37 member States in Asia and the Pacific. Do you notice any unique things in the ILO’s partnership in Viet Nam in comparison to other countries in the region?

One noticeable thing, which I hope is genuine, was the positive and constructive attitude of the Government and social partners toward the ratification of the ILO Conventions. The average rate of ratification of the Conventions is the lowest among the member States in Asia, compared to other regions. Even Africa is ahead of us. Everywhere I go, we have this conversation about ratification and how useful it is. However more often, our partners would end our conversation with many reasons why they cannot ratify. But here our partners said "We want to do it" and "We know it must be done". They made a clear commitment to fully respect the 1998 ILO Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work, and approached international labour standards in a much more constructive and positive manner.

"Firstly, policy coherence is very important at this level."


Probably because of the country’s history, the tripartite partners really seemed to understand how the Conventions and building capacity would contribute to the country’s development as it goes for deeper global integration. This way, Viet Nam can be proud of its open, inclusive society where people enjoy sustainable development.

We all know that it will be a big step for Viet Nam. We really hope that the commitment will soon become a reality. The ILO is ready to support Viet Nam throughout the process of the industrial upgrade and industrial relations renovation for sustainable development

So Viet Nam is one of the countries that we have been looking at as a good example to showcase. It can send a very strong signal on what a country should look like when there is social justice at the core of their development.

After thirty years of successful Doi Moi (Renewal process), Viet Nam is now entering a new era of development with the TPP and other free trade deals. What would be key policies concerns to address if Viet Nam wants to fully reap benefits of global integration and avoid ‘middle-income trap’?

There are three basic elements.

Firstly, policy coherence is very important at this level. Each ministry is doing their best in their own portfolio area but it is crucial to have a strong internal mechanism to ensure those policies are coherent. Also important is sequencing of policy intervention – deciding what should come first makes a huge difference.

The second element is the speed of change. In the 21st global economy things are moving fast, meaning existing rules and regulations quickly become obsolete. If you need, for example, six years to pass a policy, by the time you pass it the policy will already have become outdated. So making sure that our partners have policies reviewed, appraised and passed at a good speed is necessary.

The third element is learning from other countries’ experiences, which could help Viet Nam make evidence-based decisions. You need smart analysis of those lessons and the ability to turn that analysis into a language appealing to politicians.

This year the ILO plans to work closely with the tripartite partners to formulate the new 2017-21 Decent Work County Programme, which will be aligned with Viet Nam’s Social and Economic Development Plan and the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). This will provide an opportunity to create a coherent policy framework, with correctly sequenced policy interventions and evidence-based policy making and implementation.

The ILO is the fourth UN agencies you’ve worked at and is an active member of the One UN family. Do you have any messages to the One UN in Viet Nam?

At this time when Viet Nam needs coherent and effective policies to take the country to the next stage, the UN has to come together and offer more policy advice. The UN should not try to do what the Government does but should focus on creating an enabling environment for policy advice that allows them to build their capacity to do that.

The ILO is in a good position because we are a specialized agency. We have conventions, a unique tripartite mechanism and a supervisory system. The ILO has been using this to the fullest to carry out our mandate. In the current situation, these elements are more important than ever.

So I hope that all UN country teams, including Viet Nam, will offer the intellectual leadership to help the country address the issues I mentioned – coherence, sequence, speed, and evidence-based decision-making. Now it is the time for the UN to stand side by side with the Vietnamese Government and social partners, so that they can take their own path. It is the quality and depth of the advice that matters. It can cost little financially but be huge in terms of impact. We have to keep pushing ourselves to make the best of our expertise using limited resources.

In addition to the TPP and other free trade agreements that serve as external drivers, we should not forget the SDGs. They are a powerful tool. We need to understand how the country intends to achieve the SDGs. When we are able to effectively link our interventions to the SDG dynamic, the outcomes could be maximized.